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Moving the user info to the left [message #15425]

Tue, 16 December 2003 14:49

hello-world

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Hi,

By far the best forum I have seen. Yeah, I have even tried
phpbb. Uprofessional stuff..

But the default layout isn't very good. Especially the displaying the
user info on the top...

It wastes a whole table, and the posts look margin-less, which is
more difficult read.

So is there a simple way to just switch the user info to the left.

I mean, any basic such theme.

Sorry, if this has already been asked.

Keep the good work. This is undoubtedly The best forum software
around. I have been searching around for a week now. Finally got it.

Thanks.

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15426 is a reply to message #15425]

Tue, 16 December 2003 15:15

Ilia

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You can modify the message display template and have the messages displayed in an alternate manner.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15427 is a reply to message #15426]

Tue, 16 December 2003 15:54

hello-world

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Oh,

I was looking for a full theme kind of..

Btw, do you have a mailing list for this forum; you appear to be
using a list.

Thanks

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15428 is a reply to message #15427]

Tue, 16 December 2003 15:59

Ilia

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no, all of the forum dicussion is happening on this forum.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15429 is a reply to message #15427]

Tue, 16 December 2003 16:04

hello-world

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How do I _manually_ enforce my theme after changing the file.

As somebody has pointed out, just editing the tmpl files doesn't make
a difference.

The editing feature built-in is too heavy on the mouse and you get a
hand pain after making a lot of changes...

Thanks

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15430 is a reply to message #15429]

Tue, 16 December 2003 16:06

hello-world

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Hey,

you are damn too fast.

I mean, I am using a text browser - emacs-w3m, but you beat me.

Let me do my own documentation searching. I will come after I do a
complete study.

Thanks for the help.

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15431 is a reply to message #15430]

Tue, 16 December 2003 16:12

hello-world

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Btw,

Are you the lone developer or what?

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15432 is a reply to message #15431]

Tue, 16 December 2003 16:35

Ilia

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Yes.

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15435 is a reply to message #15432]

Tue, 16 December 2003 17:46

hello-world

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Hi,

I have checked a lot of FUd forums. Everyone has the user-info on the
left and it looks damn better than and less cluttered than the
default.

Naturally it begs the question: why have a default that looks
inferior?

I mean, why not do things the best way? It will make it easier for
people to easily deploy this stuff, since it appears everyone too
prefers user-info on the left.

Just a thought. THe default does look a bit cluttered and for people
who doesn't know that the styles are fully configurable, it may act as
a deterrent to trying this great board.

Anyway,

I have 1 question left.

Where can I download full themes as a whole?

Thanks

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15436 is a reply to message #15435]

Tue, 16 December 2003 17:50

hello-world

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Taking into consideration the popularity of the user-info-on-the-left
theme, I think it would be nice to have it bundled in.

It would be nice to have a theme built into it at least.

Thanks.

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15437 is a reply to message #15435]

Tue, 16 December 2003 17:53

Ilia

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The layout change was implemented in 2.6, which is why you do not see it else where. Once 2.6 stable is released, you'll see more forums using the new format.

I disagree about the older layout looking better, but it's a matter of preference fortunately FUDforum capabilities allow you to customize the layout to your liking.

I do not know where you can download whole themes.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15438 is a reply to message #15436]

Tue, 16 December 2003 17:54

Ilia

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hello-world wrote on Tue, 16 December 2003 12:50

Taking into consideration the popularity of the user-info-on-the-left
theme, I think it would be nice to have it bundled in.

It would be nice to have a theme built into it at least.

Thanks.

If everyone decides to jump of the top of a building does it mean I must follow?

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15439 is a reply to message #15438]

Tue, 16 December 2003 18:04

hello-world

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>>> If everyone decides to jump of the top of a building does it mean
I must follow?

Absolutely... The building is on fire, pal.. In such a state you are
better off jumping off. Wink

Wink

I mean, there is proper reason why the user-info-on-left looks
better; a reason anybody who has done copy in the 2nd grade will
understand - Margin.

And 2) in the default style the space on the right of user-info is
completely _wasted_.

SO user-info-on-left has _2_ _real_ advantages over your style...

See, to me it is not just a matter of preference or anything. I wont
say anything unless I find solid explainable reasons for doing so.

I mean, human preferences might be very subjective, but there is real
beauty in nature...

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15440 is a reply to message #15439]

Tue, 16 December 2003 18:12

Ilia

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There was a long discussion about why/how etc... about this already, search forum archives.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15441 is a reply to message #15440]

Tue, 16 December 2003 18:35

hello-world

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You are one hell of stubborn fellow heh?

Those people were right and all they had in mind was the good of the
forum.

ONe person even commented..
"THe design issues are eating into the popularity of the forum."

And he is f*cking right too..

But they failed to mention this:

A margin on the left makes a damn hell of a difference... By your
argument no book should ever have a margin on the left... right? You
are thinking too literally pal.... What matters is not the
mathematical equations about design layout (It matters too) But the
_total_ perception, the final impression that it engenders in the
human f*cking brain.

Finally, you need to have an artistic sense. I mean, if you just go
around trying to make maximum use of the space etc, you end up
inconveniencing the user. You are forgeting the nuances of human
nature. You are lacking the finer sense of perception here...

Let me just tell you that, the user-info-on-the-left acts a MARGIN,
and a Margin gives a very nice feeling on the text.

Fortunately, you never had a chance to design notebooks for the
kids. Poor kids would have been in trouble. They never would have been
able to write well, with your ideas of making maximum use of the space
and all.

But I guess there is no f*cking point arguing with you.

All I can tell you is that you are damaging a very beautiful product
here, in fact, the best the forum software I have seen. So don't screw
it up just because you are stubborn by nature...

Don't let anything stand on the way of doing the right thing...

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15442 is a reply to message #15441]

Tue, 16 December 2003 18:49

hello-world

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Its much worse than I thought. There was _absolutely_ no support for
your move....

Are some kind of descendant of stalin or something. You should have a
search of your geneology and find out..

Btw, where are you situated now? In US or Russia or some state
therein.

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15443 is a reply to message #15442]

Tue, 16 December 2003 18:55

Ilia

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Yawn...

Let me know when you are done ranting.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15444 is a reply to message #15441]

Tue, 16 December 2003 18:56

hello-world

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Hey,

Let me cut the crap and get on with my life...

Could you please tell me how to get the standard layout.

I read it is in the file drawmsg.tmpl, but the damn file looks 128bit
encrypted to me. Might take a long long time to decipher the stuff.

So just help me out here and I will go away and trouble your stubborn
self no more.

At least have a alternate theme that provides the _standard_
layout. I mean, just out of respect for sheer number of people who
like it.

I am sure, there are a lot of people - I have seen many myself - with
my complaint.

And it will help you too to just have a standard solution for all
these past and future complaints. Just have call it
_STANDARD-retarded_ theme or something, but have it please...

Thanks.

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15445 is a reply to message #15444]

Tue, 16 December 2003 19:01

hello-world

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People, too stupid to comprehend what they read has always treated
reason as rant; so your statement doesn't come as a surprise to me.

But, anyway I will leave you to wallow and drown in your own idiocy
and delusions of grandeur.

Thanks anyway

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15446 is a reply to message #15444]

Tue, 16 December 2003 19:09

Ilia

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Quote:

Could you please tell me how to get the standard layout.

I read it is in the file drawmsg.tmpl, but the damn file looks 128bit
encrypted to me. Might take a long long time to decipher the stuff.

drawmsg.tmpl is little more then a series of HTML blocks to change the appearance all you need to do is to modify the 'message_entry' section.

If you can't be bothered to spend the time to customize your forum to your liking, you're at a height of arrogance thinking I would do it for you.

Quote:

And it will help you too to just have a standard solution for all
these past and future complaints.

The standard solution already exist it is as simple as:
Get used to the new layout it'll grow on you or modify message display code or find a different forum software.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15447 is a reply to message #15446]

Tue, 16 December 2003 19:27

hello-world

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No Message Body

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15448 is a reply to message #15447]

Tue, 16 December 2003 19:36

hello-world

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>>> If you can't be bothered to spend the time to customize your forum
>>> to your liking, you're at a height of arrogance thinking I would
>>> do it for you.

Arrogance? you must mean ignorance...

I mean, I am newbie, you are the expert and having haggled with many
people over this piece of layout, I am sure you are extremely thorough
with this particular code by now.

1 minute work for you, whole days for me.
I have even tried, and paid my dues already.

SO you have misspelled ignorace as arrogance...

But no matter. If you are bent on being a ....., you are fully
entitled, by no less than the constitution itself, to be so.

>>> Get used to the new layout it'll grow on you or modify message >
>>>display code or find a different forum software.

This is why I say you f*cking don't get it.

I have NEVER USED a forum till now and I am f*cking NEVER going to
use one. I have always been with mailing lists (which is one reason
why I need this forum for my clients, so that I can stick with my
custom built mail client: emacs).

In f*cking fact, I don't even have a graphical browser. I use
linux,emacs-w3m.

But I respect the tastes of humanity...

Huamnity may be totally stupid and all, but their tastes are in the
right place.

Anyway, thanks for everything...

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15449 is a reply to message #15448]

Tue, 16 December 2003 19:56

Ilia

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I said arrogance and I meant arrogance. As far as I am concerned developer time (on any project) is infinitely more valuable then user time. So, even if it takes a user 10 times as long to figure out something it is still fine. Because not only will the developer be free to work on other things, but this one time investment of time on behalf of the user will educate them in the inner working of the project.

"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day.
Teach a man to fish, feed him his entire life."

You seem to be under the false assumption I care whether or not YOU use the forum or not. Allow me to disillusion you, I don't give a flying bit.

The forum is designed to satisfy the requirements of a number of companies and individuals who sponsor it's development. As well as my own considerations on how the forum should work and look like. If others can benefit from this process great, if not they certainly have not lost anything.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15450 is a reply to message #15448]

Tue, 16 December 2003 20:01

hello-world

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Life is not all about utility, Mr,Ilia.

It is the frivolity in life that gives it meaning. In fact, it is the
useless things that gives the most value to life.

You should learn to respect the quaint tastes of people, however
non-utilitarian it may appear.

But anyway, that is not the f*cking issue here...

So somebody who has already done the shifting of user-info, please
give me a hand here. I haven't slept for 3 days now, searching for a
proper forum software.

And I am absolutely new to this forum, html, web, php business, which
makes it altogether a nightmare for me.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Btw, if you can teach me how to do the customization, I can write a
tutorial for it. At least, I can write up an faq for all those wanting
the old style..

Thanks again in advance.

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15451 is a reply to message #15450]

Tue, 16 December 2003 20:16

hello-world

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>> I said arrogance and I meant arrogance. As far as I am concerned
>> developer time (on any project) is infinitely more valuable then
>> user time. So, even if it takes a user 10 times as long to figure
>> out something it is still fine. Because not only will the developer
>> be free to work on other things, but this one time investment of
>> time on behalf of the user will educate them in the inner working
>> of the project.

First of all, it is a very general problem faced by MANY, not just
me.

Your ideas have had absolutely no support from anybody other than
yourself and maybe bugs bunny and other imaginary characters that you
have around you.

I have again and again pointed out that you are fighting against the
current. I am not numbskulled like you to think that the world is
supposed to follow my tastes, however vulgar they may be.

For myself, I will get it fixed, but it will hurt your f*cking forum,
but as you are too numb skulled to realize it - as Mccartney had aptly
put it - let it be.

I am just a representative of the very many who have posted here
asking for a method to change the layout.

They didn't have a knack of putting it across like me. That is all.

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15452 is a reply to message #15450]

Tue, 16 December 2003 20:25

Ilia

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Quote:

Life is not all about utility, Mr,Ilia.

Life's a bitch and then you die.

Quote:

It is the frivolity in life that gives it meaning. In fact, it is the
useless things that gives the most value to life.

You should learn to respect the quaint tastes of people, however
non-utilitarian it may appear.

Why? I spend my free time designing a application to my satisfaction and standards. If someone wants to compromise this vision, fine, behold the wonders of open source. They need to either convince me (as hard as it may be) or hire myself or another programmer to do it for them.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15453 is a reply to message #15451]

Tue, 16 December 2003 20:25

hello-world

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>> You seem to be under the false assumption I care whether or not YOU
>> use the forum or not. Allow me to disillusion you, I don't give a
>> flying fuck.

As for me, I have no other option but to disregard that the developer
is ....., and go ahead with the installation of your software..

I mean, I don't have a choice. This is the only one that supports
mailing lists.

So, quit worrying about me. Wink

Wink

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15455 is a reply to message #15452]

Tue, 16 December 2003 20:31

hello-world

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>>> Why? I spend my free time designing a application to my
>>> satisfaction and standards. If someone wants to compromise this
>>> vision, fine, behold the wonders of open source. They need to
>>> either convince me (as hard as it may be) or hire myself or
>>> another programmer to do it for them.

You are going to lose a huge number of people, who will just get put
off by the design...

Now, you will say you don't care. Well, that is absolutely up to you.

Again, quit worrying about losing _me_, since I don't seem to have a
choice. Wink

Wink

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15456 is a reply to message #15451]

Tue, 16 December 2003 20:36

Ilia

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Quote:

First of all, it is a very general problem faced by MANY, not just me.

Even if it were true, so what?

Quote:

Your ideas have had absolutely no support from anybody other than
yourself and maybe bugs bunny and other imaginary characters that you
have around you.

I could argue that you were wrong encouraging you to read the original thread, but if you wanted to face reality if you would've done so already.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15457 is a reply to message #15455]

Tue, 16 December 2003 20:38

hello-world

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>>> Why? I spend my free time designing a application to my
>>> satisfaction and standards. If someone wants to compromise this
>>> vision, fine, behold the wonders of open source. They need to
>>> either convince me (as hard as it may be) or hire myself or
>>> another programmer to do it for them.

This exactly is the point...

You have put in a lot of effort, you have done a good work here..

Now all that is going to be lost because of your stubbornness...

I mean, you are simply screwing up your hardwork, because of a simple
matter of principle..

A principle can be replicated any number of times, but not so with
hardwork.

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15458 is a reply to message #15425]

Tue, 16 December 2003 20:47

hackie

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I think you are mis-understanding the whole point of this project.

First of all as was stated. You can yourself quite easily modify the template to do whatever you want... You even have an older template to compare it to!

The reason for this layout is manyfold. It works, it saves horizontal space which is limited for vertical space which is unlimited!

This design also does something many other forums FUCK UP on, or need a separate viewing port. This forum works on portable devices such as PDAs and looks great doing so.

So, why do you not accept the developers opinion. He has by FAR more experience then you do with this.

If you so desire for the horizontal layout (which is obsolete) why not just modify the template!? It's 5min of work and you will have everything you want.

cc intelligence.c -o intelligence
$ ./intelligence
Segmentation fault

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15459 is a reply to message #15458]

Tue, 16 December 2003 21:00

hello-world

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1) PDA's make a fraction of the total usage.

There are people using a 30'' TV screen for their monitor, too.

* You can at least provide the old style as an alternate theme. This
is what all sane people do.

Mind you, I am not saying you should do it, but just pointing out
what _sane_ people generally do. You are free to follow your
principles.

[Updated on: Tue, 16 December 2003 21:22]

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15460 is a reply to message #15458]

Tue, 16 December 2003 21:03

hello-world

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>> If you so desire for the horizontal layout (which is obsolete) why
>> not just modify the template!? It's 5min of work and you will have
>> everything you want.

5minutes of work?

I have spent more than an hour on it, trying to make head or tail of
it.

I have never done html in my life. I am only comfortable with lisp
and C.

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15461 is a reply to message #15460]

Tue, 16 December 2003 21:07

hello-world

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>> 5minutes of work? I have spent more than an hour on it, trying to
>> make head or tail of it. I have never done html in my life. I am
>> only comfortable with lisp and C.

And again that is the point.

1) A lot of people want the old style...

2) There is no _easy_ way to do it.

Conclusion: You are stupidly stubborn.

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15463 is a reply to message #15461]

Tue, 16 December 2003 21:15

hello-world

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Fuck Everything...

All _WE_ - and I am sure the whole forum is with me ;-)- need is the
old style as an alternate theme.

You can keep your new style and make your point, but let the rest of
the poor folks have a life too...

We all have wives (yeah, it is plural) and kids to feed.

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15469 is a reply to message #15425]

Tue, 16 December 2003 21:55

hackie

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Dude, relax? This is the best forum out there. If it's done here this way, then means it is the correct way.

If you are doing this for personal use then at least I can understand where you are coming from, with little development knowledge it might be hard.

However if you are trying to use this forum for a commercial purpose and demanding these modifications for free, then you need to realise it doesn't work this way Smile

Smile

. You either do it yourself, get someone do it however possible (usually by paying them). The cheapest and fastest way for you to get this is to hire out the FUD developer to make these changes for you. If this doesn't satisfy you that too bad but you can not expect someone to work for you for free.

Anyway, at end whatever modifications you made you have to contribute back to FUD since your usage of FUD is guided by GPL.

If that doesn't satisfy you, you can contact the developer and license the code in any way you and the developer agree on. This will probably cost money.

This is the reason why the quality of this forum is BY FAR beyond other forums avalible. This forum is a full time **JOB** for the developer, not just a hobby.

cc intelligence.c -o intelligence
$ ./intelligence
Segmentation fault

[Updated on: Tue, 16 December 2003 21:57]

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15473 is a reply to message #15469]

Tue, 16 December 2003 22:11

hello-world

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cc intellegence.c -o intellegence $ ./intellegence Segmentation fault

You misspelled intelligence.

I don't have any wives. In fact, death before marriage, but neither
before breakfast is my motto.

It is for my rational-thought.net site. It is not up yet. It is
supposed to be fucking hobby for me.

But, I am not a lone voice here. And people should see reason.

If I have strayed from the path of reason, yeah, fuck it, crucify me,
but never till then.

Once the site is up, I will invite you all. It is a site promoting
atheistic rationality..

Questioning God is the beginning of compassion.

-- Myself

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15474 is a reply to message #15473]

Tue, 16 December 2003 22:13

AzaToth

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give up!

Mad

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15476 is a reply to message #15425]

Tue, 16 December 2003 22:37

hackie

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I do not think you understand just how little time ilia has avalible Wink

Wink

. I was asking the dumb shit to come to as party on a weekend and you know what he said? No fucking WAY, I've got piles of work and I spent another 20 min on the phone telling him not to be a fucking loser. However, he really does have this much work to do. So you're not helping him right now Wink

Wink

.

He is a very VERY busy person, you have understand HE HAS NO TIME TO SPEND ON THIS AT ALL.

cc intelligence.c -o intelligence
$ ./intelligence
Segmentation fault

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Re: Moving the user info to the left [message #15477 is a reply to message #15476]

Tue, 16 December 2003 22:51

hello-world

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>> I do not think you understand just how little time ilia has
>> avalible Wink. I was asking the dumb shit to come to as party on a
>> weekend and you know what he said? No fucking WAY, I've got piles
>> of work and I spent another 20 min on the phone telling him not to
>> be a fucking loser. However, he really does have this much work to
>> do. So you're not helping him right now Wink.

I got a friend just like this. Brilliant. But never sees reason. In
the end he will lose, in spite of, (or may be because of) the
brilliance.

You will lose people who will be put off by this layout.

It took me a lot of time to find this forum. I spent 4 days with the
stupid phpbb trying to make it work like I want it to. The less users
you have, the lesser is your exposure.

If that doesn't matter to you.... Fuck it, it should.

But yeah, it is his software, and he is fully entitled to whatever
stuff he is entitled to.

But I was just being funny. I wouldn't have fucking bothered if I
hadn't liked the software...

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