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Re: out of sheer curiosity... [message #177577 is a reply to message #177574]

Tue, 10 April 2012 12:04

Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010

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Senior Member

On 4/10/2012 7:44 AM, Thomas Mlynarczyk wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle schrieb:
>
>> In OO terminology, the correct term is "constructor". I'm not familiar
>> with Python, so I can't say what Python calls it. But the name is not
>> as important as the job.
>
> True. But one still has to keep in mind that the constructor is not
> constructing the object, but initializing it.
>

It does more than that. The system allocates memory for the object.
The constructor parcels out that memory into the appropriate pieces then
initializes those pieces. In truth, it does "construct" the object.

>> Initialization is NEVER harmful if it is done properly. That's the
>> whole purpose of initialization!. wakeup() is NOT a constructor - any
>> more than sleep() is a destructor.
>
> You would have to take extra measures to prevent re-initializing an
> already initialized object. Your constructor would need to detect what
> type of initialization is required (freshly created by `new`, cloned or
> unserialized). While certainly possible, this would be cumbersome.
> Different magic initializers are clearly the better way to go.
>

A serialized object is not an object. By definition, an object has both
state (properties) and behavior (methods operating on those properties).
A serialized object has only state - it is not an object.

True OO languages handle this quite well. But PHP can't seem to figure
that out. But then there are so many ways PHP is lacking.

>> wakeup() is not a constructor. If you consider it a constructor, then
>> you must also consider sleep() to be a destructor - in which case it
>> would be illegal to call the destructor after calling sleep().
>
> __wakeup() is an initializer, just like __construct() and __clone(). And
> __sleep() is still not a destructor -- see my earlier post.
>

__construct() and __clone() are constructors - a term specifically used
in OO terminology ("initializer" is not). Changing their name does not
change the facts.

>> It is the opposite of wakeup() - just like __construct() is the
>> opposite of __destruct(). You can't have it both ways.
>
> I think we do agree that __sleep() is not a destructor. And maybe we can
> agree that __construct(), __clone() and __wakeup() all perform
> initialization tasks and thus could be all called "initializers".
>
> Greetings,
> Thomas
>
>

I agree that __construct() and __clone() are constructors. There is no
"initializer" in OO terminology. Only "constructor".

--
==================
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Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================

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[Message index]

		out of sheer curiosity... By: Leonardo Azpurua on Tue, 27 March 2012 17:01
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: alvaro.NOSPAMTHANX on Tue, 27 March 2012 17:06
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Leonardo Azpurua on Tue, 27 March 2012 17:34
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas 'PointedEars' on Wed, 28 March 2012 19:12
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Leonardo Azpurua on Thu, 29 March 2012 00:53
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: M. Strobel on Thu, 29 March 2012 08:00
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Leonardo Azpurua on Thu, 29 March 2012 09:53
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: The Natural Philosoph on Thu, 29 March 2012 10:46
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: M. Strobel on Thu, 29 March 2012 12:02
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Erwin Moller on Thu, 29 March 2012 12:33
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: The Natural Philosoph on Thu, 29 March 2012 13:37
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Erwin Moller on Thu, 29 March 2012 13:59
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: The Natural Philosoph on Thu, 29 March 2012 16:58
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Thu, 29 March 2012 13:39
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Erwin Moller on Thu, 29 March 2012 14:21
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: The Natural Philosoph on Thu, 29 March 2012 17:09
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Tim Streater on Thu, 29 March 2012 21:07
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: M. Strobel on Thu, 29 March 2012 21:43
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: The Natural Philosoph on Fri, 30 March 2012 03:52
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Thu, 29 March 2012 20:11
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Tim Streater on Thu, 29 March 2012 21:01
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Thu, 29 March 2012 23:29
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: M. Strobel on Sun, 08 April 2012 20:50
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Sun, 08 April 2012 21:15
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: M. Strobel on Sun, 08 April 2012 22:39
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: The Natural Philosoph on Sun, 08 April 2012 23:59
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Mon, 09 April 2012 00:28
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Mon, 09 April 2012 00:24
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: M. Strobel on Mon, 09 April 2012 09:29
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Mon, 09 April 2012 12:27
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Mon, 09 April 2012 13:20
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Mon, 09 April 2012 16:03
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Mon, 09 April 2012 18:04
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Mon, 09 April 2012 18:37
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Mon, 09 April 2012 20:50
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 00:17
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: M. Strobel on Tue, 10 April 2012 08:05
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 11:28
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: M. Strobel on Tue, 10 April 2012 16:54
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 18:10
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: M. Strobel on Tue, 10 April 2012 18:23
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 21:17
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 21:11
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 21:30
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 23:43
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 21:08
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: M. Strobel on Wed, 11 April 2012 08:40
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 11:58
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Tim Streater on Tue, 10 April 2012 15:04
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 16:10
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 16:18
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: The Natural Philosoph on Tue, 10 April 2012 17:20
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: M. Strobel on Tue, 10 April 2012 17:31
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 21:20
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 21:57
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 23:50
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Tim Streater on Tue, 10 April 2012 16:41
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 15:25
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 16:16
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 11:44
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 12:04
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 15:37
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 16:19
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 16:44
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 21:23
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Scott Johnson on Mon, 09 April 2012 18:50
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Mon, 09 April 2012 21:03
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Scott Johnson on Mon, 09 April 2012 22:27
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 00:25
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 10:48
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 12:06
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Leonardo Azpurua on Tue, 10 April 2012 12:22
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 16:20
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Leonardo Azpurua on Tue, 10 April 2012 16:33
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 21:28
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 22:13
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 23:53
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Wed, 11 April 2012 20:17
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Wed, 11 April 2012 20:30
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 00:22
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 10:43
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 12:11
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 16:15
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: M. Strobel on Tue, 10 April 2012 17:09
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 18:17
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: M. Strobel on Tue, 10 April 2012 18:25
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 21:21
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 21:34
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Tue, 10 April 2012 23:00
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Tue, 10 April 2012 23:54
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Wed, 11 April 2012 20:10
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Wed, 11 April 2012 20:31
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Thomas Mlynarczyk on Wed, 11 April 2012 20:40
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Thu, 12 April 2012 04:02
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: M. Strobel on Thu, 12 April 2012 10:00
		Re: out of sheer curiosity... By: Jerry Stuckle on Thu, 12 April 2012 11:45

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