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Re: Dynamic form generation [message #177726 is a reply to message #177724] Wed, 18 April 2012 08:33 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Tony Marston is currently offline  Tony Marston
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"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message news:jmk2lu$hgn$1(at)dont-email(dot)me...
>
> On 4/17/2012 8:49 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Denis McMahon wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 09:59:52 +0100, Tony Marston wrote:
>>>> If you used a proper framework ...
>>>
>>> ... then you'd have all the junk and baggage that comes along with that
>>> framework, including any security flaws in the framework.
>>>
>>> Not saying that frameworks are inherently bad, but they're not
>>> automatically the solution either.
>>
>> TINSTAAFL. If you want complete flexibility of the application as the OP
>> wants, you have to have an abstraction layer in your application, i.e. it
>> has to be built on a framework (some people really should reflect on the
>> term "framework" and its etymology). Abstraction layers come at a price:
>> Increased overall complexity of the application and decreased efficiency
>> for
>> tasks that do not require as much flexibility.
>>
>
> Yup, and when you use a framework you force the application to match the
> framework, instead of allowing the application to meet the client's needs.
>
> It may work - but then it may not, also.

The client's needs are met by screens/reports which have the right layout
and which perform the right functions. My framework does not stand in the
way of that at all. When user transactions are initially generated they have
default screens and default behaviour, but these can be customised to
whatever level of sophistication you want.

>> Whether that framework was written by you or someone else is another
>> matter.
>> Chances are that a framework written by someone else has already gained
>> enough adoption in the global software community that its flaws –
>> including
>> security flaws – are more quickly detected and fixed than in a framework
>> that you have written yourself. On the other hand, chances are that a
>> framework you have written yourself can be better adjusted *by you* to do
>> what you want than a framework written by someone else, especially if you
>> created it for the same project in which you are using it.
>>
>
> So? Good programming practices and test cases will eliminate more security
> flaws than many of the "frameworks" out there. Have you seen some of the
> crap code which has been written "by committee"? Not all of it, but a lot
> of the donations are from people who don't really understand what they're
> doing - or at least don't write code like they know what they're doing.
>
>> Inevitably all frameworks become bloated if functionality for flexibility
>> keeps being added to them. It would appear that there is a point where a
>> framework author should stop improving it and start something new for a
>> new
>> project, maybe based on old code (but sometimes a rewrite is less
>> expensive
>> and turns out to be better). IOW, it is a good idea if you built
>> frameworks
>> with modularity in mind and use them only *as needed* (not simply for the
>> sake of using them, like trying to appear cool to the crowd).
>>
>>
>> PointedEars
>
> If a framework attempts to be "all things to all people", then that's quite
> true. But the same is true of *any* code.
>
> However, a limited framework with limited goals doesn't necessarily have to
> be the case.
>
> For instance, in my case - I have a framework which builds PHP classes to
> interface to a database. It generates a lot of usable code for those
> classes, including form handling.

So you framework generates "a lot" of code, does it? My framework generates
very small amounts of code which call shared functions or which inherit code
from abstract classes.

> However, since each class is pretty much independent, I can easily change
> a class without affecting the rest of the program.

So can I with my framework.

> I don't have it where it will work with multiple tables yet (something I
> will do one of these days), but it takes a huge amount of the repetitive
> work off of me.

Removing the need for all this repetitive coding, the "plumbing" as I call
it, is exactly what my framework does.

> And no, I don't try to use it for every project. But where a project is
> database-intensive, it suits my purposes.

All my applications are database-intensive, which is why I use a framework
which is centred around the database.

--
Tony Marston

http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org

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