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How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #23879]

Sun, 03 April 2005 18:47

ripple

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Hi all, my first post here.

I'm curious to know how the Mailing List Manager works? We have been evaluating phpbb, SMF and now, we've stumbled onto the FUDforum.

We really like web-based forum software, but one of the main areas of concern is the loss of emailing -- not email notifications, but people who strictly prefer mailing list type programs over web forums. They want to be able to receive a message via their email software and reply directly to the message from within email.

So, if someone could give me a down-and-dirty explanation on how it works, and if it can be integrated into a forum style, it would be most appreciated!

Thanks,

Matt

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #23880 is a reply to message #23879]

Sun, 03 April 2005 19:13

Ilia

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The mailing list support works by creating import rule and then my piping the messages via the maillist.php script with that rule. The result is that any message piped get's imported to a forum attached to the rule.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #23881 is a reply to message #23880]

Sun, 03 April 2005 19:22

ripple

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Thanks for your quick response.

I'm assuming there is some code in the email message that the filter picks up on to send it to the correct forum?

Secondly, let's say I have 5 different forums, can it be configured basically so you have 5 different mailing lists?

[Updated on: Sun, 03 April 2005 19:58]

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #23883 is a reply to message #23881]

Sun, 03 April 2005 19:36

Ilia

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Quote:

I'm assuming there is come code in the email message that the filter picks up on to send it to the correct forum?

The logic which forum the message get's sent to is determined from the forum attached to the mailing list rule.

Ex.
cat message | php maillist.php 2

In this case message will be imported based on rule #2, which is associated with forum "foo" inside the bulletin board.

A single FUDforum installation can be used to archive as many mailing lists as you like. The only "rule", is that each mailing list must be associated with it's own forum.

P.S. When I say "forum" within this context I am referring to the individual forum container for message. For example "FUDforum Announcements" on this install.

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #23884 is a reply to message #23883]

Sun, 03 April 2005 19:52

ripple

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Ok, that makes sense.

From a usability standpoint, do you assign each forum, lets say a particular email address?

So let's say I have two forums:

General
Help

Could it be configured so if I send a message to general(at)domain(dot)com or help(at)domain(dot)com the messages would appear in those forums?

And, let's say someone posts a message via the web-interface, would it broadcast that post to the subscribing members?

Matt

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #23886 is a reply to message #23884]

Sun, 03 April 2005 21:16

Ilia

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You do specify an e-mail address when creating a maillist import rule, however it would only be used to send messages from the forum to the maillist if syncronization is enabled. As far as import is concerned the destination forum is determined based the rule id and nothing else.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24910 is a reply to message #23879]

Wed, 18 May 2005 17:32

leecovuk

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hello everyone;

I'm confused about an apparently basic thing here;

I currently am successfully configured so that incoming email to a specific address gets piped onto my Fud forum.
So far so good!

But how do users subscribe to the output of a mail list?
Or, does the mail list have to already exist and be managed by an external mail list manager?

thanks a lot,
lee

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24911 is a reply to message #24910]

Wed, 18 May 2005 17:51

Ilia

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Users can subscribe to the forum and recieve notifications about any new topics or they can subscribe to individual topics and recieve notifications about the replies for that topic.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24915 is a reply to message #24911]

Wed, 18 May 2005 18:02

leecovuk

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ok;
I've seen that kind of notification subscription, and also appreciate that the notification can include the actual post body;

So there is no 'true' mail list subscription capability then? Have I got that right? If so, are there plans to introduce that?

thanks again.

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24917 is a reply to message #24915]

Wed, 18 May 2005 18:19

Ilia

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You can enable a setting in the forum that will send the full text of the message inside the notification e-mails.
There are no plans to make the forum a mailing list manager, the mailing list integration is included for 2 tasks:
1) Allow the form to act as a mailing list archive.
2) Provide a mailing list interface to allow list subscribers without e-mail access to submit messages to the list.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24918 is a reply to message #24917]

Wed, 18 May 2005 18:33

leecovuk

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ok thanks;
I think this may not be for me then, as I need full forum + list integration. I will test for a while though.

Seems to be hard to find a software package which covers all my bases;
for example phpBB + Mail2Forum works pretty much as I need, along the lines of Mailgust. However phpBB itself seems to have heavily (hidden) restrictions on html, even when posting directly on the web. For example tables seem to be strangely corrupted and the code   is not resolved in a html post.

Fudforum however, seems to resolve html pretty much exactly as intended, including via email, which is important to me and the posting habits / choices of my current Mailgust membership.

I don't know if the html flexibility here is because Fudcode is more extensive than BBCode, or are these issues nothing to do with how html is resolved?

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24922 is a reply to message #24918]

Wed, 18 May 2005 19:37

Ilia

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I don't know how phpBB handles HTML, I just know how I've designed FUDforum to handle it, which as you can see works rather well.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24923 is a reply to message #24922]

Wed, 18 May 2005 19:53

leecovuk

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It certainly does!
I am not a programmer, (except for medium level html and css) but presumably you use iframes or some technique so that <style> tags (for example) don't disrupt the board's templates?

I don't know what FudCode (or BBCode) _really_ are, but I'm just interested in whether FudForum's html resolution is anything to do with FudCode? ie does the board have to recognise and convert all html to FudCode so it can be displayed?

Which html (if any) does Fudforum strip / restrict / not understand?

many thanks again.

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24925 is a reply to message #24923]

Wed, 18 May 2005 20:02

Ilia

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leecovuk wrote on Wed, 18 May 2005 15:53

It certainly does!
I am not a programmer, (except for medium level html and css) but presumably you use iframes or some technique so that <style> tags (for example) don't disrupt the board's templates?

Neither of those are used, there are various checks in place to validate and control the input data to prevent layout breakage.

Quote:

I don't know what FudCode (or BBCode) _really_ are, but I'm just interested in whether FudForum's html resolution is anything to do with FudCode? ie does the board have to recognise and convert all html to FudCode so it can be displayed?

FUDcode is pretty much BBcode with a few extra tags, fudforum stores all messages as HTML and converts them back to FUDcode when needed. It understands HTML that equivalent or similar to that generated by FUDcode parsing.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24927 is a reply to message #24925]

Wed, 18 May 2005 20:17

leecovuk

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ok thanks again.

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24930 is a reply to message #24927]

Thu, 19 May 2005 01:02

leecovuk

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Just a thought here;
I know this is trying to angle towards mail list functionality ...

Could I customise the forum and/or post notifications (with body text) so that they look like normal posts? ie with just original subject and body content? A url link to any parent thread wouldn't be a handicap, maybe even a plus.
Arguably, these mails could then be considered a kind of list subscription, and people could reply / email to the list address using the available pipe to the Fud list.

I wouldn't be bothered about the 'true' use of the notification mails not being available for normal purposes.

This concept would then essentially make Fud a viable option to me, seeing as you have the html support I need which phpBB+Mail2Forum currently doesn't. You both offer another important feature which is the 'subject matching for threading on non compliant email replies'.

Of course I would also like subscription/unsubscription by email, daily digests etc, but I know this is not planned here or currently available in M2F.

Thanks for any help on this; thought it was worthing asking if it's not a huge feat to change/cheat those notifications.

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24931 is a reply to message #24930]

Thu, 19 May 2005 01:13

Ilia

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If you want to change the "form" of the forum message display as those are being sent to the user you can do by editing a template responsible for the composition of the message body.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24936 is a reply to message #24931]

Thu, 19 May 2005 03:18

leecovuk

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ok; i assume you've gathered what I'm talking about then? ie wanting to make the forum post notifications look pretty much like a normal email?

Is the 'template' adjustment of that 'form' something I should be able to do myself in the various admin options? I admit I haven't looked yet into that depth, but will do.

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24958 is a reply to message #24936]

Thu, 19 May 2005 20:44

leecovuk

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hello again,

My previous post is still valid, but I'd like to check if I'm missing or misunderstanding something as well ..

The doc says this:

"Mailing List Email

The email address of the mailing list, if you specify that messages posted in the forum are to be sent to the mailing list as well, those messages will be sent to this email address."

If literally true, how does this work or need to be set up? I can't understand how forum posts (= posts typed on the web forum) would be sent to the list address.
All I have so far found is the 'forum notification' subscription option, which sounds very different to this doc info.

thanks a lot.

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24960 is a reply to message #24958]

Thu, 19 May 2005 20:55

Ilia

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Read the documentation...

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24962 is a reply to message #24960]

Thu, 19 May 2005 20:57

leecovuk

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No need to be rude ... I have read what I can find, which is why I asked.

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24963 is a reply to message #23879]

Thu, 19 May 2005 21:12

leecovuk

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I can only assume you are referring to this function, which I had already read several times and is turned on :

Synchronize Forum Posts to Mailing List

Whether or not to forward messages that were posted on the forum to the mailing list. If selected when a user posts a message, the forum will send the messages to the mailing list on behalf of the user.

Presumably the reason why my testing set up isn't achieving this, is that the list address I have selected in Fudforum's MLM settings is only an alias which gets piped to the maillist.php script.
I will change my testing by setting up an actual list in Mailman (for eg) and then see if it works as stated when using that actually live list address.

btw, I don't yet know if the following is related to my current test setup, so I hope these issues will vanish when changing my testing as described above:

1) 'Slow match' is not avoiding new threads being created with the same name as a current one.
2) Html is only coming through when Thunderbird is the mail client. The email message also has to be forced to be sent as Html only.

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24964 is a reply to message #24963]

Thu, 19 May 2005 21:20

Ilia

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Slow match will try to match messages by removing the "Re: " portion and then trying to match topic with the same name inside the forum. But that's secondary to the reply identifier found inside the headers not being present. Those are available most of the time.

If the content of the source message is plain-text, the forum will use it with basic conversions such as encoding of special chars and converting new lines to <br />.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24981 is a reply to message #24964]

Fri, 20 May 2005 05:42

leecovuk

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ok thanks;
I'm finding this software is more sophisticated than I first thought.

I now have a Mailman list, and have successfully set up the pipe (I think) so that emails sent to the list address also appear on the web, and messages posted on the web are mailed out to the list.
The form of my pipe is:
listaddress(at)mydomain(dot)com : "|PipeToMailman","|php -q PipeToFudMaillist.php 2"

I have no idea btw how you've coded Fud to know how to mail onto the list! Presumably this would only work if everything is on the same web server?

This whole setup presumably negates my idea of wanting to cheat the Forum Notifcations to appear as mails, now that I understand better how Fud works; ie I presumably can have all the full featured usage of Mailman and the Fudforum as a web archive with 2-way posting functionality.

I have seen you have a 'problems' thread, but just to ask here for now whilst I am finding my way:

(In case relevant, I am using Firefox web browser)

I have set my Forum and FudList to HTML, but both plain text and html emails are showing on the web in plain text with all line breaks missing.
The only exception to this I have so far discovered is when I send a html email from Thunderbird with its format forced into html only. ie not sent with a plain text version as well. This then appears perfectly on the web as sent.
I have been wondering if I have the 'Word Wrap' function set wrongly? I have tried '0' and is currently set at '60'.

I don't know if the error mail below of which I've received one so far is related? I haven't adjusted any of the coding/files at all. I got it after sending in an email.

Many thanks.

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

pipe to |php -q /usr/home/incel/FUDforum/scripts/maillist.php 2
generated by Flist(at)incelsite(dot)com

The following text was generated during the delivery attempt:

------ pipe to |php -q /usr/home/incel/FUDforum/scripts/maillist.php 2
generated by Flist(at)incelsite(dot)com ------

<br />
<b>Notice</b>: Undefined index: SERVER_NAME in <b>/usr/home/incel/FUDforum/include/theme/default/imsg_edt.inc</b> on line <b>695</b><br />

(-- then the mail showed full headers and plain text+html text--)

[Updated on: Fri, 20 May 2005 05:46]

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24982 is a reply to message #24981]

Fri, 20 May 2005 05:48

Ilia

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Quote:

I have no idea btw how you've coded Fud to know how to mail onto the list! Presumably this would only work if everything is on the same web server?

No, the mailing list can be anywhere on the web. When the forum needs to syncronize a message back to the list, it uses the message poster's e-mail address as the FROM address for the e-mail. Affectively sending it as the forum user, if the forum user is subscribed to the list their message will go through. Otherwise they will recieve an e-mail from the list via e-mail asking them to sign-up to the list.

What version of the forum are you running?

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24983 is a reply to message #24982]

Fri, 20 May 2005 05:53

leecovuk

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Very clever! And such a quick reply! Are you always online??!

I'm using :

Powered by: FUDforum 2.6.12

have just looked in IE6 and the threads look the same as in Firefox.
I generally assume anything that works in Firefox should be ok in IE6.

If you want to / have time to check out my install, you're more than welcome.
It's at:
http://www.incelsite.com/forums/

If I may I'll msg you with the admin login and password.

thanks once again.

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24987 is a reply to message #23879]

Fri, 20 May 2005 18:28

leecovuk

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hello again,

I'm assuming you haven't had time yet to check out my install with the login/password I sent you by pm;

Here is the system info in case something shouts out at you :

System Configuration
PHP built On: FreeBSD www-s34d2.ununetworks.com 4.10-RELEASE-p4 FreeBSD 4.10-RELEASE-p4 #0: Wed i386
Database Version: 4.0.21
PHP Version: 4.3.9
Web Server: Apache/1.3.33 (Unix) mod_auth_passthrough/1.8 mod_log_bytes/1.2 mod_bwlimited/1.4 FrontPage/5.0.2.2634a mod_ssl/2.8.22 OpenSSL/0.9.7d PHP-CGI/0.1b
WebServer to PHP interface: cgi
Forum Version: 2.6.12
Relavent PHP Settings:
Safe Mode: OFF
Open basedir: none
Display Errors: ON
File Uploads: ON
Magic Quotes: ON
Register Globals: ON
Output Buffering: No
Disabled Functions: none
PSpell Support: No
Zlib Support: Yes

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24988 is a reply to message #24987]

Fri, 20 May 2005 22:07

Ilia

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Don't see anything particularly unusual. You may want to upgrade to FUDforum 2.6.13RC2, it has a number of fixes pertaining to syncronization in mailing lists.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24989 is a reply to message #24988]

Fri, 20 May 2005 23:07

leecovuk

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Ok, I'll give it a go shortly.

Is the MLM side of things a new feature? How long have you had it going?

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #24992 is a reply to message #24989]

Sat, 21 May 2005 14:25

Ilia

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it's been around for over a year.

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #25000 is a reply to message #24992]

Sat, 21 May 2005 19:05

leecovuk

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ok;
since the upgrade I have so far noticed some html emails being perfectly displayed on the web, which is very good.

However, there seems to be a problem still, maybe specific to when emails are sent by Thunderbird;
in TB's default mode emails are sent multipart (plain text and a html version if html is used) and Fud seems to latch onto and display only the plain text version without line breaks resolved. I _think_ plain text emails sent in from other sources are also still losing their line breaks, but I haven't yet reached any firm conclusions on this.

In case it helps on the TB issue, below are the headers (edited for brevity here) of such a TB email, when sent to an independent address and viewed in Neomail webmail. There too, the mail was displayed in plain text but with line breaks in place. The attachment shown is actually the html part of the mail .... ?!
: -

User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------070501070306020406020706"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

Red verdana.

goodbye.

Attachment 1
Type: text/html
Filename: Unknown.html
Encoding: 7bit Download

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #25002 is a reply to message #25000]

Sat, 21 May 2005 20:39

Ilia

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Send me the entire message with headers n'all as a text file and I'll take a look.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #25005 is a reply to message #25002]

Sat, 21 May 2005 21:44

leecovuk

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thanks, will do now. Either by your PM or email link.
Forcing the email in TB to be sent as 'html only' results in perfect html resolution on the web, as I said earlier.

I hope you're not annoyed by all my posts here, but once I find something I like to give it my best shot.

The following url shows the other issue of plain text emails losing their line structure. That is how they appear on my Windows XP and web browser, in case your viewing results in anything else : -

http://www.incelsite.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&th=13&start=0&S =0850a1cbedee136c062678cc930d618d

many thanks
lee

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #25018 is a reply to message #25005]

Sun, 22 May 2005 16:11

Ilia

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When messages contains both HTML and plain-text the forum prefers the plain-text version. That version is being imported correctly as my tests show.

As far as the warning messages on import, those are fixed by the following two patches:
http://cvs.prohost.org/c/index.cgi/FUDforum/chngview?cn=3538
http://cvs.prohost.org/c/index.cgi/FUDforum/chngview?cn=3539

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #25019 is a reply to message #25018]

Sun, 22 May 2005 16:14

leecovuk

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Ilia wrote on Sun, 22 May 2005 12:11

When messages contains both HTML and plain-text the forum prefers the plain-text version. That version is being imported correctly as my tests show.

Ah ok; how can I force the html version to be displayed if both plain text and html content are found in an email? Seems a shame for the html version not to be the default choice by Fud.

How about my problem with line returns being removed from emails on the web, or are you still looking into that?

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #25020 is a reply to message #25019]

Sun, 22 May 2005 16:22

Ilia

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As far as preference for which part to pick in multipart e-mails, you can change the preference by editing maillist.php script.

I have not seen it happen with the e-mail you've provided. Send me the complete data of a message where it happens and I'll take a look.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #25021 is a reply to message #25020]

Sun, 22 May 2005 16:31

leecovuk

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ok, thanks.

As for my line breaks problem, it might be better if you send an email to the address
flist(at)incelsite(dot)com
and then check how it is displayed on the web at:

http://www.incelsite.com/forums/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=1&S=eafa9 f4ba1247fd10b03414b7215440a

It is my experience so far that all plain text emails are displayed without line structure.

thanks,
lee

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #25022 is a reply to message #25021]

Sun, 22 May 2005 16:33

Ilia

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I cannot debug things on your server... send me as a text file full version of the e-mail that loses formating and then I can review the situation.

FUDforum Core Developer

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #25023 is a reply to message #25022]

Sun, 22 May 2005 16:37

leecovuk

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My suggestion was just so you can see the problem and be aware of the email source because you sent it yourself. Maybe you could cc yourself on it.

If I send you an email eml how would that help you more?

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Re: How does Mailing List Manager Work [message #25024 is a reply to message #25023]

Sun, 22 May 2005 16:44

Ilia

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If you cannot be bothered to provide the information I've requested to replicate the bug, I'm afraid I don't have the time to look into it.

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