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Re: out of sheer curiosity... [message #177436 is a reply to message #177434] Thu, 29 March 2012 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Erwin Moller is currently offline  Erwin Moller
Messages: 228
Registered: September 2010
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On 3/29/2012 3:39 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 3/29/2012 8:33 AM, Erwin Moller wrote:
>> On 3/29/2012 12:46 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

<snip>

>>> Its just another way of doing things and I let my understanding of the
>>> problem guide me, not a set of arbitrary rules.
>>
>> As it should!
>>
>> But what 'rules' are you referring to?
>>
>> PHP's OO is pretty straightforward.
>> I think they did a decent job implementing OO.(php 5 that is)
>>
>> Creating smart classes is up to the programmer.
>> I am not aware of any extra 'rules'.
>>
>> Are you maybe referring to all kinds of design patterns scattered around
>> the web?
>> (In which case I tend to agree, because implementing other people's
>> solutions can take the fun out of programming. But reading them never
>> hurts. And when you agree to a certain approach you can even decide to
>> follow it yourself. It is all up to you, the programmer.)
>>
>
> Any rules TNP doesn't bother to understand are "arbitrary" in his mind.
> He doesn't even like having to follow PHP syntax rules - as he has also
> said in the past.
>
> But I disagree that PHP 5's implementation of OO is decent. I think it's
> half-assed at best. Truly written by people who have no understanding of
> OO. But then that can be said of a lot of PHP.
>

Jerry,

What are your main objections to the PHP5's OO approach?

For myself: I must say I love its simplicity.
(Simplicity is a Good Thing in my opinion.)



<snip>

>> But even then, OO often won't hurt too much either.
>> You can simply use your procedural logic in OO too.
>> I worked like that in Java when I started learning the language, until I
>> discovered how idiotic I was. All part of the learning curve. :-)
>>
>
> I agree - I've seen some things which work better using a procedural
> approach. But I've also found the more complicated something gets, the
> more appropriate an OO approach becomes.
>

Exactly. :-)

<snip>

>>>
>>> (and almost all of the problems to which PHP is the natural language of
>>> choice do not benefit from OOP. If a web site is the application each
>>> php 'page' is an object in its own right..anyway.
>>
>> True for a simple plain webpage, but when you have something more
>> complex OO can certainly help.
>> Most (all?) modern MVC software are at least partly OO, simply because
>> it makes things easier to organize.
>>
>
> No, a page is not an object. A page is closer to a transactional
> application. For instance, the page cannot be reused in another page
> without modifications. Objects can.
>

No, of course a page is not an object in the OO meaning.
I was referring to using OO to help building the page.

I wonder: one might defend that storing serialized objects in a session
is object persistence, and that a page is hence also part of it because
it is coupled via sess_id to that object.
Nah.. too farfetched.
(And I never store objects in a session anymore: not worth the trouble
in my opinion.)

<snip>

>
> I can code Intel processors - I started back in '82 when the typical PC
> had 64K or 128K of RAM (and slow). We needed to do some stuff in 808x
> assembler. I still do a little as a hobby (mainly to keep up with it),
> but I don't go down to the OS level.
>

Nice!
And I feel like a relic now with my 6502 hands-on experience. ;-)

Regards,
Erwin Moller

--
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without
evidence."
-- Christopher Hitchens

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