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Re: Unicode support [message #180993 is a reply to message #180992]

Sun, 31 March 2013 12:41

The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 993
Registered: September 2010

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Senior Member

On 31/03/13 13:10, M. Strobel wrote:
> Am 30.03.2013 19:04, schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>> On 30/03/13 14:55, Christoph Becker wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 30/03/13 13:25, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > The same issue exists with characters outside the BMP in ECMAScript
>>>> > implementations which uses 16-bit characters (usually one UTF-16 code
>>>> > unit
>>>> > per character). But you can work around that rather efficiently.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> The problem become 'what do you mean by strlen()' - the space the
>>>> characters will occupy in an constant width font, or the storage
>>>> allocated to the string?
>>>>
>>>> Mostly we are concerned with the latter.
>>>
>>> I am more concerned about the number of characters the string holds.
>>> Say, I want to get the last character:
>>>
>>> $str = '€';
>>> echo $str[2];
>>>
>>>> Because lack of precision in font reproduction, or even in guaranteeing
>>>> which font may be selected, renders the former an 'open' question.
>>>>
>>>> strlen('€')===3 is in fact the correct answer.
>>>
>>> I suppose most *higher level languages* define the length of a string as
>>> the number of characters the string holds. Cf. ECMAScript's length
>>> property and TCL's [string length]. Even PHP's mb_strlen() returns the
>>> number of characters.
>>>
>>
>> so what happens in a typographic ligature like 'ᴁ'?
>>
>> I think you are making a rod for your back here.
>>
>> The storage requirements are exact specific and useful.
>>
>> The concept of a 'character in a text string' is really not..and if you go deep into
>> typography with kerning, leading,ligature and the like and the like you will
>> understand why.
>>
>
> Of course you need both, the storage requirements, and direct access to characters.
> Maybe programming languages should use internally full 32 bit per char, or compress
> the unicode string using a good library for access.
>
> C does not even know strings, just byte arrays
>
Thereby avoiding the problems completely by not even pretending to
solve them.

And you can always wrote a unicode_strlen() to any specification you
want..the problem is..

....given that many 'characters' may take LESS than a byte (ligature) or
up to 3-4 bytes (unicode character sets).... what specification?

and the concept of a 'character' is practically valueless anyway..,

> /Str.
>
>

--
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(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

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[Message index]

		mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated By: oldyork90 on Wed, 20 March 2013 03:49
		Re: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated By: Jerry Stuckle on Wed, 20 March 2013 10:42
		Re: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated By: oldyork90 on Wed, 20 March 2013 14:09
		Re: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated By: Thomas 'PointedEars' on Wed, 20 March 2013 14:29
		Re: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated By: The Cat in the Hat on Wed, 20 March 2013 21:58
		UTF-8 charset (was: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated) By: Christoph Becker on Wed, 20 March 2013 22:45
		Re: UTF-8 charset (was: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated) By: The Cat in the Hat on Wed, 20 March 2013 23:13
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: The Natural Philosoph on Wed, 20 March 2013 23:31
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: M. Strobel on Thu, 21 March 2013 09:11
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: adrian on Thu, 21 March 2013 14:31
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: The Natural Philosoph on Thu, 21 March 2013 16:22
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: M. Strobel on Thu, 21 March 2013 17:05
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: Thomas 'PointedEars' on Fri, 22 March 2013 00:17
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: Christoph Becker on Fri, 22 March 2013 00:55
		Unicode support (was: UTF-8 charset) By: Thomas 'PointedEars' on Fri, 22 March 2013 01:16
		Re: Unicode support By: Christoph Becker on Sat, 30 March 2013 12:57
		Re: Unicode support By: Thomas 'PointedEars' on Sat, 30 March 2013 13:25
		Re: Unicode support By: The Natural Philosoph on Sat, 30 March 2013 14:33
		Re: Unicode support By: Christoph Becker on Sat, 30 March 2013 14:55
		Re: Unicode support By: The Natural Philosoph on Sat, 30 March 2013 18:04
		Re: Unicode support By: Christoph Becker on Sat, 30 March 2013 20:26
		Re: Unicode support By: The Natural Philosoph on Sat, 30 March 2013 21:26
		Re: Unicode support By: Christoph Becker on Sat, 30 March 2013 22:14
		Re: Unicode support By: The Natural Philosoph on Sat, 30 March 2013 22:29
		Re: Unicode support By: M. Strobel on Sun, 31 March 2013 12:10
		Re: Unicode support By: The Natural Philosoph on Sun, 31 March 2013 12:41
		Re: Unicode support By: M. Strobel on Sun, 31 March 2013 17:12
		Re: Unicode support By: Thomas 'PointedEars' on Sat, 30 March 2013 19:18
		Re: Unicode support By: Christoph Becker on Sat, 30 March 2013 20:05
		Re: Unicode support By: Thomas 'PointedEars' on Sat, 30 March 2013 20:19
		Re: Unicode support By: M. Strobel on Sun, 31 March 2013 12:06
		Re: Unicode support By: M. Strobel on Tue, 02 April 2013 17:59
		Re: Unicode support By: The Natural Philosoph on Sat, 30 March 2013 14:29
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: The Natural Philosoph on Fri, 22 March 2013 10:50
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: M. Strobel on Fri, 22 March 2013 08:46
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: M. Strobel on Thu, 21 March 2013 17:36
		Re: UTF-8 charset [OT] By: adrian on Thu, 21 March 2013 18:22
		Re: UTF-8 charset [OT] By: Peter H. Coffin on Thu, 21 March 2013 20:00
		Re: UTF-8 charset [OT] By: Thomas 'PointedEars' on Fri, 22 March 2013 00:47
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: The Natural Philosoph on Wed, 20 March 2013 23:20
		Re: UTF-8 charset By: Scott Johnson on Wed, 20 March 2013 23:39
		Re: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated By: Jerry Stuckle on Thu, 21 March 2013 03:29
		OT: Xnews mime-proxy (was: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated) By: BootNic on Thu, 21 March 2013 14:53
		Re: mysql dynamic binding and pass-by-ref deprecated By: oldyork90 on Thu, 21 March 2013 13:43

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