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Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169910] Thu, 30 September 2010 02:28 Go to next message
Datesfat Chicks is currently offline  Datesfat Chicks
Messages: 3
Registered: September 2010
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Junior Member
I'd like to produce graphs and figures, exported to a file like a .PNG or
..GIF or .JPG.

I'd like to produce these files directly from a C program.

I remember from using PHP that PHP has some functionality built in where you
create a graphic canvas then make calls to put lines and text on it, then
you can emit it as a .PNG. I'm looking for something like that: a bunch of
graphics primitives that draw on a canvas (where the canvas is a software
construct), then you can export the canvas to a file when you're done
manipulating it.

Are there any libraries like this, callable from C, out there?

Thanks for any advice.

DF.
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169911 is a reply to message #169910] Thu, 30 September 2010 02:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ian Collins is currently offline  Ian Collins
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Registered: September 2010
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On 09/30/10 03:28 PM, Datesfat Chicks wrote:
> I'd like to produce graphs and figures, exported to a file like a .PNG
> or ..GIF or .JPG.
>
> I'd like to produce these files directly from a C program.

libDG.

--
Ian Collins
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169912 is a reply to message #169910] Thu, 30 September 2010 03:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerry Stuckle is currently offline  Jerry Stuckle
Messages: 2598
Registered: September 2010
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Senior Member
On 9/29/2010 10:28 PM, Datesfat Chicks wrote:
> I'd like to produce graphs and figures, exported to a file like a .PNG
> or .GIF or .JPG.
>
> I'd like to produce these files directly from a C program.
>
> I remember from using PHP that PHP has some functionality built in where
> you create a graphic canvas then make calls to put lines and text on it,
> then you can emit it as a .PNG. I'm looking for something like that: a
> bunch of graphics primitives that draw on a canvas (where the canvas is
> a software construct), then you can export the canvas to a file when
> you're done manipulating it.
>
> Are there any libraries like this, callable from C, out there?
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> DF.

Why are you asking in a PHP newsgroup?

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169913 is a reply to message #169912] Thu, 30 September 2010 03:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seebs is currently offline  Seebs
Messages: 3
Registered: September 2010
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Junior Member
On 2010-09-30, Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
> On 9/29/2010 10:28 PM, Datesfat Chicks wrote:
>> I'd like to produce graphs and figures, exported to a file like a .PNG
>> or .GIF or .JPG.

>> I'd like to produce these files directly from a C program.

>> I remember from using PHP that PHP has some functionality built in where

> Why are you asking in a PHP newsgroup?

1. It's crossposted to comp.unix.programmer and comp.lang.c as well.
2. See the quoted text above.
3. Why are you responding to "Datesfat Chicks" to begin with?

-s
--
Copyright 2010, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam(at)seebs(dot)net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
I am not speaking for my employer, although they do rent some of my opinions.
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169914 is a reply to message #169912] Thu, 30 September 2010 03:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Datesfat Chicks is currently offline  Datesfat Chicks
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"Jerry Stuckle" <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote in message
news:i80vjf$c7d$1(at)news(dot)eternal-september(dot)org...
> On 9/29/2010 10:28 PM, Datesfat Chicks wrote:
>> I'd like to produce graphs and figures, exported to a file like a .PNG
>> or .GIF or .JPG.
>>
>> I'd like to produce these files directly from a C program.
>>
>> I remember from using PHP that PHP has some functionality built in where
>> you create a graphic canvas then make calls to put lines and text on it,
>> then you can emit it as a .PNG. I'm looking for something like that: a
>> bunch of graphics primitives that draw on a canvas (where the canvas is
>> a software construct), then you can export the canvas to a file when
>> you're done manipulating it.
>>
>> Are there any libraries like this, callable from C, out there?
>>
>> Thanks for any advice.
>>
>> DF.
>
> Why are you asking in a PHP newsgroup?

Because I had seen similar functionality in PHP, I thought perhaps someone
could have unusual ideas, like calling a PHP script from C (if nothing more
direct worked out).

I apologize for the intrusion.

Datesfat
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169915 is a reply to message #169913] Thu, 30 September 2010 04:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Datesfat Chicks is currently offline  Datesfat Chicks
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"Seebs" <usenet-nospam(at)seebs(dot)net> wrote in message
news:slrnia81jd(dot)2bn6(dot)usenet-nospam(at)guild(dot)seebs(dot)net...
> On 2010-09-30, Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>> On 9/29/2010 10:28 PM, Datesfat Chicks wrote:
>>> I'd like to produce graphs and figures, exported to a file like a .PNG
>>> or .GIF or .JPG.
>
>>> I'd like to produce these files directly from a C program.
>
>>> I remember from using PHP that PHP has some functionality built in where
>
>> Why are you asking in a PHP newsgroup?
>
> 1. It's crossposted to comp.unix.programmer and comp.lang.c as well.
> 2. See the quoted text above.
> 3. Why are you responding to "Datesfat Chicks" to begin with?

#3 is offensive on at least two levels:

a)You want to discriminate against me because my parents, Mr. and Mrs.
Chicks, weren't especially skilled at naming children. That is patently
unfair to me.

b)It seems you may also have something against women with a few extra
pounds.

I just post an honest question and all these ugly prejudices start coming
out ... shocking, just shocking.

Datesfat

P.S.--As you surmised, my real name is not Datesfat Chicks. I took that
name after everyone made fun of me on rec.motorcycles. The issue is that I
have a motorcycle that only allows 365 lbs. of passengers and cargo, and
since I'm a good 240 lbs., that means anyone who rides with me can't be
especially heavy. I asked the question of which models of motorcycle with a
reasonable engine displacement would allow a larger passenger, and then the
speculation that I'm into fat chicks began ...
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169916 is a reply to message #169910] Thu, 30 September 2010 06:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nick is currently offline  Nick
Messages: 2
Registered: September 2010
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Junior Member
"Datesfat Chicks" <datesfat(dot)chicks(at)gmail(dot)com> writes:

> I'd like to produce graphs and figures, exported to a file like a .PNG
> or .GIF or .JPG.
>
> I'd like to produce these files directly from a C program.
>
> I remember from using PHP that PHP has some functionality built in
> where you create a graphic canvas then make calls to put lines and
> text on it, then you can emit it as a .PNG. I'm looking for something
> like that: a bunch of graphics primitives that draw on a canvas
> (where the canvas is a software construct), then you can export the
> canvas to a file when you're done manipulating it.
>
> Are there any libraries like this, callable from C, out there?

GD. Works from C, written in C, you can hack the source code. Has an
PHP interface. Generates png, jpg, you name it.

There's ever half a dozen lines of my code in there.
--
Online waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu
Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169924 is a reply to message #169910] Thu, 30 September 2010 10:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Kettlewell is currently offline  Richard Kettlewell
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"Datesfat Chicks" <datesfat(dot)chicks(at)gmail(dot)com> writes:

> I'd like to produce graphs and figures, exported to a file like a .PNG
> or .GIF or .JPG.
>
> I'd like to produce these files directly from a C program.
>
> I remember from using PHP that PHP has some functionality built in
> where you create a graphic canvas then make calls to put lines and
> text on it, then you can emit it as a .PNG. I'm looking for something
> like that: a bunch of graphics primitives that draw on a canvas
> (where the canvas is a software construct), then you can export the
> canvas to a file when you're done manipulating it.
>
> Are there any libraries like this, callable from C, out there?

I know of a couple:

http://www.cairographics.org/ is at heart a vector drawing library, with
the ability to render to any number of file formats (including PNG).
It's what I used last time I wanted to draw graphs, and it worked well.
Do read the FAQ.

http://www.libgd.org/ is more pixel-oriented and perhaps less ambitious
than Cairo, but AFAIK pretty widely used. It's a long time since I've
used it but as I recall it got the job done.

You don't say what platform you're using, but it's possible it already
includes both of these.

--
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169925 is a reply to message #169910] Thu, 30 September 2010 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Edward is currently offline  Edward
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Registered: September 2010
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Junior Member
Datesfat Chicks wrote:
> I'd like to produce graphs and figures, exported to a file like a .PNG
> or .GIF or .JPG.
>
> I'd like to produce these files directly from a C program.
> <snip>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> DF.
Not /quite/ what you asked for, but when I wanted something similar (it
was graphs in my case), I found a very lightweight solution was to build
everything in an array with some handhacked functions, emit a PNM (which
is very easy; you just write a list of numbers out in textual form), and
then run pnmtopng over it. So, if lightness is a consideration and your
actual requirements are very simple (lines, boxes, and text), you might
want to go for something like that, rather than having the overhead of a
full-featured drawing library.

--
"Sanity" is the last refuge of the unimaginative.
visit my useless website -- http://dev-null.chu.cam.ac.uk
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169927 is a reply to message #169915] Thu, 30 September 2010 12:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric Sosman is currently offline  Eric Sosman
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On 9/30/2010 12:05 AM, Datesfat Chicks wrote:
> "Seebs" <usenet-nospam(at)seebs(dot)net> wrote in message
> news:slrnia81jd(dot)2bn6(dot)usenet-nospam(at)guild(dot)seebs(dot)net...
>> [...]
>> 3. Why are you responding to "Datesfat Chicks" to begin with?
>
> #3 is offensive on at least two levels:
>
> a)You want to discriminate against me because my parents, Mr. and Mrs.
> Chicks, weren't especially skilled at naming children. That is patently
> unfair to me.
> [...]

Goodbye, Mr. Chicks.

<PLONK>

--
Eric Sosman
esosman(at)ieee-dot-org(dot)invalid
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169931 is a reply to message #169913] Thu, 30 September 2010 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerry Stuckle is currently offline  Jerry Stuckle
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Registered: September 2010
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Senior Member
On 9/29/2010 11:39 PM, Seebs wrote:
> On 2010-09-30, Jerry Stuckle<jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>> On 9/29/2010 10:28 PM, Datesfat Chicks wrote:
>>> I'd like to produce graphs and figures, exported to a file like a .PNG
>>> or .GIF or .JPG.
>
>>> I'd like to produce these files directly from a C program.
>
>>> I remember from using PHP that PHP has some functionality built in where
>
>> Why are you asking in a PHP newsgroup?
>
> 1. It's crossposted to comp.unix.programmer and comp.lang.c as well.
> 2. See the quoted text above.
> 3. Why are you responding to "Datesfat Chicks" to begin with?
>
> -s

I know it's cross-posted. I can read, idiot.

And I responded because I had a valid question.

Why are you trolling?

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169939 is a reply to message #169931] Thu, 30 September 2010 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seebs is currently offline  Seebs
Messages: 3
Registered: September 2010
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Junior Member
On 2010-09-30, Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
> On 9/29/2010 11:39 PM, Seebs wrote:
>> On 2010-09-30, Jerry Stuckle<jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>>> On 9/29/2010 10:28 PM, Datesfat Chicks wrote:
>>>> I remember from using PHP that PHP has some functionality built in where

>>> Why are you asking in a PHP newsgroup?

>> 1. It's crossposted to comp.unix.programmer and comp.lang.c as well.
>> 2. See the quoted text above.
>> 3. Why are you responding to "Datesfat Chicks" to begin with?

> I know it's cross-posted. I can read, idiot.

No, no you can't.

> And I responded because I had a valid question.

No, no you didn't.

You see, *if* you could read, you would have noticed that the OP had
specifically mentioned the PHP context of his query, and would have known
why he crossposted to the PHP newsgroup.

> Why are you trolling?

This question has a false premise. It's not trolling to quote the part
of the post you were responding to which provided a clear and unambiguous
answer to your question.

-s
p.s. *plonk*
--
Copyright 2010, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam(at)seebs(dot)net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
I am not speaking for my employer, although they do rent some of my opinions.
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169940 is a reply to message #169927] Thu, 30 September 2010 17:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Default User is currently offline  Default User
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Registered: September 2010
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"Eric Sosman" <esosman(at)ieee-dot-org(dot)invalid> wrote in message
news:i81v3q$r5v$1(at)news(dot)eternal-september(dot)org...
> On 9/30/2010 12:05 AM, Datesfat Chicks wrote:
>> "Seebs" <usenet-nospam(at)seebs(dot)net> wrote in message
>> news:slrnia81jd(dot)2bn6(dot)usenet-nospam(at)guild(dot)seebs(dot)net...
>>> [...]
>>> 3. Why are you responding to "Datesfat Chicks" to begin with?
>>
>> #3 is offensive on at least two levels:
>>
>> a)You want to discriminate against me because my parents, Mr. and Mrs.
>> Chicks, weren't especially skilled at naming children. That is patently
>> unfair to me.
>> [...]
>
> Goodbye, Mr. Chicks.
>
> <PLONK>

Huh. Reading through his entire explanation, it's clear what you quote was a
joke. He went on to explain the actual origin of his moniker. I personally
think you were unreasonable with this plonk. While somewhat off-topic for
comp.lang.c, his question was not a troll, nor has his behavior warranted
your reaction.




Brian (after all, I AM "Default User", hard for me to throw nym-stones)
--
Day 603 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project.
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169941 is a reply to message #169910] Thu, 30 September 2010 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Malcolm McLean is currently offline  Malcolm McLean
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On Sep 30, 4:28 am, "Datesfat Chicks" <datesfat.chi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I'd like to produce graphs and figures, exported to a file like a .PNG or
> .GIF or .JPG.
>
If you drop me an email I can send you the GIF and JPEG code from my
book Basic Algorithms.

It used to be on the web but no more since I left Leeds University.
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169942 is a reply to message #169915] Thu, 30 September 2010 18:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ralph Malph is currently offline  Ralph Malph
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Registered: September 2010
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Junior Member
> P.S.--As you surmised, my real name is not Datesfat Chicks. I took that
> name after everyone made fun of me on rec.motorcycles. The issue is that
> I have a motorcycle that only allows 365 lbs. of passengers and cargo,
> and since I'm a good 240 lbs., that means anyone who rides with me can't
> be especially heavy. I asked the question of which models of motorcycle
> with a reasonable engine displacement would allow a larger passenger,
> and then the speculation that I'm into fat chicks began ...
I think you hit a raw nerve since most of the "regulars in comp.lang.c
fall into only a couple of categories:
(0) have never touched a woman
(1) are so socially retarded and grotesque so as to
have their romantic possibilities restricted to
desperate morbidly obese women
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169944 is a reply to message #169939] Thu, 30 September 2010 19:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerry Stuckle is currently offline  Jerry Stuckle
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Senior Member
On 9/30/2010 12:09 PM, Seebs wrote:
> On 2010-09-30, Jerry Stuckle<jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>> On 9/29/2010 11:39 PM, Seebs wrote:
>>> On 2010-09-30, Jerry Stuckle<jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
>>>> On 9/29/2010 10:28 PM, Datesfat Chicks wrote:
>>>> > I remember from using PHP that PHP has some functionality built in where
>
>>>> Why are you asking in a PHP newsgroup?
>
>>> 1. It's crossposted to comp.unix.programmer and comp.lang.c as well.
>>> 2. See the quoted text above.
>>> 3. Why are you responding to "Datesfat Chicks" to begin with?
>
>> I know it's cross-posted. I can read, idiot.
>
> No, no you can't.
>

ROFLMAO!

>> And I responded because I had a valid question.
>
> No, no you didn't.
>

It was perfectly valid. What do most PHP programmers know about C?
(some of us do - I've been using it for about 25 years, but that's
besides the point).

The question was about C libraries, not PHP libraries.

> You see, *if* you could read, you would have noticed that the OP had
> specifically mentioned the PHP context of his query, and would have known
> why he crossposted to the PHP newsgroup.
>
>> Why are you trolling?
>
> This question has a false premise. It's not trolling to quote the part
> of the post you were responding to which provided a clear and unambiguous
> answer to your question.
>

Perfectly valid premise. Only a troll would think otherwise.

> -s
> p.s. *plonk*

ROFLMAO! Just like the troll you are! I guess that's why you're afraid
to use your real name. I would be, too :)

I am glad not *everyone* in c.l.c is like you!

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net
==================
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169949 is a reply to message #169944] Fri, 01 October 2010 08:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pk is currently offline  pk
Messages: 1
Registered: October 2010
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Junior Member
Jerry Stuckle wrote:

> ROFLMAO! Just like the troll you are! I guess that's why you're afraid
> to use your real name.

Perhaps you should read signatures once in a while.
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #169955 is a reply to message #169944] Fri, 01 October 2010 14:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seebs is currently offline  Seebs
Messages: 3
Registered: September 2010
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Junior Member
On 2010-09-30, Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex(at)attglobal(dot)net> wrote:
> It was perfectly valid. What do most PHP programmers know about C?

I have no clue.

> The question was about C libraries, not PHP libraries.

Yes, but he crossposted to a PHP newsgroup because he knew he had used such
a library in PHP, and thought maybe PHP programmers would know what it was.
Since the obvious first candidate is probably something like gd, which is
indeed available to C programmers on many platforms, it's even a pretty good
guess; many PHP programmers would, in fact, know about some of the C-language
image processing libs for which PHP has extensions.

> Perfectly valid premise.

No, it's not. The premise of the question is that I'm trolling, but I'm not,
I'm just explaining to the readers other than you that your attack on the OP's
crosspost was unsupported, because the OP had already answered your question
in the parts of the post you didn't read.

>> p.s. *plonk*

> ROFLMAO! Just like the troll you are!

I had to come back to this when I saw one of the responses.

> I guess that's why you're afraid
> to use your real name. I would be, too :)

See, this kind of thing is why people think you can't read. My name
was in the post you responded to. Your inability to read things is not
anyone else's problem, thanks to the magic of killfiles.

-s
--
Copyright 2010, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam(at)seebs(dot)net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
I am not speaking for my employer, although they do rent some of my opinions.
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #170002 is a reply to message #169942] Mon, 04 October 2010 21:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nick is currently offline  Nick
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Ralph Malph <ralph(at)happydays(dot)com> writes:

>> P.S.--As you surmised, my real name is not Datesfat Chicks. I took that
>> name after everyone made fun of me on rec.motorcycles. The issue is that
>> I have a motorcycle that only allows 365 lbs. of passengers and cargo,
>> and since I'm a good 240 lbs., that means anyone who rides with me can't
>> be especially heavy. I asked the question of which models of motorcycle
>> with a reasonable engine displacement would allow a larger passenger,
>> and then the speculation that I'm into fat chicks began ...
> I think you hit a raw nerve since most of the "regulars in comp.lang.c
> fall into only a couple of categories:
> (0) have never touched a woman
> (1) are so socially retarded and grotesque so as to
> have their romantic possibilities restricted to
> desperate morbidly obese women

Good lord. Kenny's changed his name.
--
Online waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu
Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #170242 is a reply to message #170002] Fri, 22 October 2010 10:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gazelle is currently offline  gazelle
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Registered: October 2010
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In article <878w2d7jes(dot)fsf(at)temporary-address(dot)org(dot)uk>,
Nick <3-nospam(at)temporary-address(dot)org(dot)uk> wrote:
> Ralph Malph <ralph(at)happydays(dot)com> writes:
>
>>> P.S.--As you surmised, my real name is not Datesfat Chicks. I took that
>>> name after everyone made fun of me on rec.motorcycles. The issue is that
>>> I have a motorcycle that only allows 365 lbs. of passengers and cargo,
>>> and since I'm a good 240 lbs., that means anyone who rides with me can't
>>> be especially heavy. I asked the question of which models of motorcycle
>>> with a reasonable engine displacement would allow a larger passenger,
>>> and then the speculation that I'm into fat chicks began ...
>> I think you hit a raw nerve since most of the "regulars in comp.lang.c
>> fall into only a couple of categories:
>> (0) have never touched a woman
>> (1) are so socially retarded and grotesque so as to
>> have their romantic possibilities restricted to
>> desperate morbidly obese women
>
> Good lord. Kenny's changed his name.

I only wish I could take credit for Mr. Malph's postings.

--
(This discussion group is about C, ...)

Wrong. It is only OCCASIONALLY a discussion group
about C; mostly, like most "discussion" groups, it is
off-topic Rorsharch [sic] revelations of the childhood
traumas of the participants...
Re: Any Libraries Out There for Generating Graphics Files? [message #170243 is a reply to message #169942] Fri, 22 October 2010 11:30 Go to previous message
Tom St Denis is currently offline  Tom St Denis
Messages: 1
Registered: October 2010
Karma: 0
Junior Member
On Sep 30, 2:15 pm, Ralph Malph <ra...@happydays.com> wrote:
>> P.S.--As you surmised, my real name is not Datesfat Chicks. I took that
>> name after everyone made fun of me on rec.motorcycles. The issue is that
>> I have a motorcycle that only allows 365 lbs. of passengers and cargo,
>> and since I'm a good 240 lbs., that means anyone who rides with me can't
>> be especially heavy. I asked the question of which models of motorcycle
>> with a reasonable engine displacement would allow a larger passenger,
>> and then the speculation that I'm into fat chicks began ...
>
> I think you hit a raw nerve since most of the "regulars in comp.lang.c
> fall into only a couple of categories:
> (0)   have never touched a woman
> (1)   are so socially retarded and grotesque so as to
>        have their romantic possibilities restricted to
>        desperate morbidly obese women

Hey hey hey there, Fat chicks need love too.

:-)

Tom
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